Official Luthiers Forum!

This has been very informative...my thanks to all.
Kevin ...I have seen your guitars and am blown away by them! They are absolutely spectacular.
I have always done some woodworking as a hobby but not to the refined level that is required in luthiery, so perhaps that is why I feel it would take me a while to get any good at it. Whereas with inlay, the work came easier for me. The small detail work being quite similar to my previous career as a Jeweler.
This really is addictive work. I find myself in the shop all day doing inlay and then out there half the night working on a guitar!

I use this simple metric. Would I buy this guitar? When my instruments get to that level, I'll consider selling them. This works for me because I would buy a guitar that has mitered purfling that doesn't "quite" line up. So, those little flaws that only I can see won't stop me from selling. I would try to charge top dollar for them though.

As for giving them away. I've found that to be a bit hard to do. The person receiving the gift is completely overwhelmed buy a gift that is worth $2000 and feels very uncomfortable. If you say that they are starting to clutter up the shop and you have to unload a few, then you are belittling the gift and essentially saying that your are giving them junk. It's weird.

Bill,

I've seen pictures of your inlay work & it is truly more "refined" in level than just about any luthiere woodworking I've seen.

Anyone with your fine hand/eye coordination combined with a little extra patience in getting a "feel" for the characteristics of the various woods, should have no problem building spectacular looking instruments. And with more experience & enthusiastic study, fine sounding instruments too!

Patience & experience - I'm finding there's no substitute for either. Add your obvious enthusiasm & artistic eye to the mix & very soon you'll be at the level you want to be.

Skip

I had been playing guitar for 38 years when I took up lutherie. My background in woodworking was pretty basic. Probably the most complicated thing I'd ever built out of wood was a bookcase for my wife. But I have had schooling in machining (hand lathe and mill, CNC lathe and mill), and I've done some gunstock carving, and I found that both these skills were highly applicable to lutherie. In fact, I use my milling machine for several steps of the build process.

Right now, I'm completing my 11th guitar. It is a commission. My first commission was my 9th build. I'd say that my 8th build was the first one I'd completed whose cosmetics finally reached a minimum standard of acceptability. Like many of you folks, I tend to be highly critical of my own work, thus for various and largely cosmetic reasons, I have not attempted to sell any of my earlier 7 builds. Nonetheless, they have been highly useful to me for much more than being simply stepping stones along the path of improving my skills. Four of the seven guitars were essentially research projects, three of which bore fruit. Thus, since they were basically prototypes, I considered their cosmetics to be of secondary importance, although I nonetheless strived to do as well as I could in that regard, feeling that it was still important that I master the various techniques involved.

Regarding when and what to charge, the "when" just kinda happened, as I was approached by a fellow I'd sold a guitar that I'd owned for many years, who wanted me to build him one, once he learned I was building. Since then, word has gotten out, and I now have three commissions waiting after this current one. The "what" came after I did a bit of soul-searching. I am still a long way from being a "master" luthier. I'm even still a ways from being a journeyman at the craft. What I am is an experienced novice with 10.8 guitars under my belt. So, because it was my desire at the outset to sell guitars, I decided I would have to be realistic about my pricing, and thus I have priced them based on my experience level. This strategy seems to be working.

Best,

Michael

_________________
Live to Play, Play to Live

[QUOTE=tippie53] I work hard at keeping my prices as fair as I can. [/QUOTE]

John...At $1700.00 for a hand-made guitar from an in-demand builder--more than fair, indeed!!!

Hi Folks,
I'm working on my 6th guitar.
I have given 3 away to friends. All sounded great.
Minor flaws on 3 of them...small cosmetic flaws.
It's fun to make them and give them away. I don't know if I could handle the selling part of the whole experience.

Walter

Bill N sounds like you have the skill set to build and sell. Interesting thread with no clear cut answer -- huh. So here's my advice that with $1.75 will buy you a coffee at Starbucks

A little tid bit to give you some encouragement -- Brad Goodman in his humility failed to mention that he has sold through Mandolin Bros, which I understand is probably one of the premier guitar shops in the U.S. (I played one at ASIA and it was one killer guitar).

When you build one you are pleased with bring it down to a good music store or two and let them give it a look and play over. If they are fairly decent they'll give you an honest assessment as to it's value. I brought one of my builds down to one of the better stores in Toronto. While the feedback was initially humbling I left knowing that with a few improvements to fit and finish what my guitars would be worth.

I've got an Archtop build that is commissioned to a friend of my wife's. He played one of my guitars and said "I want one just like that with some custom inlay work". The deal I cut on price was the cost of materials times 3 with a no obligation to buy if he doesn't like it (deep inside after all the hours and the way it is turning out I am secretly praying he doesn't want it).     

There's another school of thought (and NOT suggesting you subscribe to it) that says "ya wanna ruin a good hobby -- start doin it for a living".

In any event my order book is full for the next 5-years - one for my daughter (Thanks John Hall for the mold), one for a deserving son of a friend, one for a nephew and two more for me -- using some Brazilian Rosewood Tony Karol scored for me.Anthony Z38692.9507060185

I concur with Anthony. I always take my newest guitar to my local guitar shop. By their reaction, I get helpful tips to improve my building and finishing. I'v sold my second guitar and the third is spoken for. The fourth is for my son and I've others who are very interested in future builds. I now prefer not to take commissions but rather have people play those that are completed. If they like what they hear and see, they can buy. If not, no PRESSURE on me to perform or deadlines to meet. Eliminates stress. I consider myself to be a hobby luthier at this time. And like it like that.

[QUOTE=Mike Mahar] I use this simple metric. Would I buy this guitar? When my instruments get to that level, I'll consider selling them.
[/QUOTE]
If I used that criteria I'd be ion trouble. Of coursde I wouldn't buy one of my guitars because I can't aford them. I've also never given away a guitar. Discounted guitars but never given one away.